Piute County Deer and Elk killings by Gary Allen

The idea behind having further discussion here is not to come here and call eachother names "dickdog". Its to continue substantive conversation. This will serve as the ONLY warning from this point forward to any other members who join this forum. We don't intend on policing your language or behavior to the extent that it was on UWN, however some proper grammer and decency toward eachother is not too much to expect.

If we have to make a big list of rules for children to play, we will but instead, conversation would be good. Nobody wants to have a conversation with potty mouths who won't take the time to type in english.

The Fat Man

Thanks for the heads up Pete/goob.

OK I have been following this story from the start on UWN and have thought about it for many hours. farmers need to make a living and we need the products the farmers supple to us.

there are many areas in this country that has farm land with little impact to wildlife. there is land that is very important to wildlife's future.

farmers need to respect our natural resources, if competing with wildlife means they need to kill our big game on a regular basis then the are trying to make a living in the wrong area. these properties needs to be purchased and designated as a wildlife management areas.

Or...... give out landowner permits that you can sell and recoup your losses. Or..... drop the amount if acreage required to be a cwmu. Let the landowner manage HIS land.

So this isnt the first time this has happened and some people werent suprised this happened. Why wouldnt any precautions been takin by residents or sportsman/hunters in this area?

This isn't the first time its happened with this landowner. And if you read through minutes at past RAC meetings (Southern Region) he's made it pretty clear he doesn't like wildlife and especially elk. The division has tried to make him happy and they are only one of several agencies that have tried to work with him. He was under the impression he would inherit land that is now the Kingston WMA (what this piece of land should be and hopefully will be someday). That made him bitter enough that he didn't inherit it but when they pulled grazing permits from it and other division and other public land to try to mitigate some of the riparian damage that was being done in certain areas, he went ahead and said, PISS ON IT and ran his cattle anyway openly questioning the agencies involved, "what are you going to do about it?" One land owner asked him to remove his cattle from his cabin property and Gary told him, "You shouldn't have built your God damned cabin on grazing land." So its not just wildlife he hates. This is one miserable human being who feels the world somehow owes him. Well, between what he's been paid by the federal government and the state, he needs to be quashed into liquidating this property somehow. It would be best for his community (who have tried to reason with him), it would be better for his neighbors and other cattlemen and farmers/ranchers (who have also tried to reason with him), the division and other agencies (who have done what they can only to be the ones to get criticized for not doing enough), and for the wildlife who is what this is really about. This particular property, after looking at it on a topo map is a perfect candidate for a WMA! It could completely eliminate damage from neighboring properties while funneling wildlife through it and to different summer and fall ranges from winter ranges. Its not particularly large but I'm sure this ass doesn't want resolution but does want a fortune more than what the ground is worth. He is still allowing his cattle to run on public land where he doesn't hold grazing rights and there are some who fear him only because of his mouth and past actions. Don't believe me, read the minutes from the past three years bucks and bulls southern region buck and bulls October RAC meetings.

he needs to be quashed into liquidating this property somehow.

Really? You think we need to take someones land, livlyhood to preserve them for hunters? You are a comma socialist little bastard ain't ya? How about we also knock your house down, all your neighbors to, you were once a winter range and maybe a wetland. We live in america, not amerika!!!

fatty wrote:he needs to be quashed into liquidating this property somehow.

Really? You think we need to take someones land, livlyhood to preserve them for hunters? You are a comma socialist little bastard ain't ya? How about we also knock your house down, all your neighbors to, you were once a winter range and maybe a wetland. We live in america, not amerika!!!

He isn't doing anyone any favors. If you want to make this personal, I can fire off with a silver tongue too but I'll take the high road the best I can. I didn't say we need to take his land for hunters, you moron. Read what I wrote. It would take not only the wildlife pressure from the other landowners but social pressure from the community and embarrassment from his family that he puts on them every year. He bought this property fully aware it was a migration route, its in the disclosures in the recording of the property. I'VE READ IT!

Comma socialist bastard, huh? What do you call what this Gary asshat it doing? Capitalism? Bullshit! Alphalfa at its first cut is junk and what oats? I've sent a GRAMA to find out what he was paid for. I'll post that here as soon as I get it and I'm pretty damn sure that little piece of land isn't worth what he's gotten over the last seven years. So yes, it would be worth purchasing from him to get him out of the public eye and off everyone's ass as nothing more than a pain IN IT!

Funny you seem to know very little about this event but have a whole lot to say about it. Another anonymous big mouth with a keyboard who can't back up anything they put out in cyber land because everything they write is all their feeble, tiny little pea brain can conjure up. Go ahead and run your stubby little fingers. The more you write, the more clear your ignorance is to others. So here's what happens now....you'll insult me some more, defend Gary, insult me some more, defend Gary, write something with really bad ingrish about how wildlife steals from something or someone or another, and the call me some more names, and blah blah blah. Predictable, ignorant, unsubstantial, and worthless to the discussion....have at it bud.

I am not defending him, all landowners.if the state wants to pay him versus give him permits to sell for thousands of dollars, then either way its a return on his losses. Just because you think its shit hay makes no difference, its still loss revenue to him. I prefer first crop hay to feed my horses in the winter along with oats. First crop is shipped to race tracks and fred lits all around the country, obviously there is value, I don't think you know much about farming and livestock to make those statements.

To him, this could very we'll be investment property, the state pays him every year, he knows he is getting it, why would he sell. sounds like a businessman to me.

And as a investment piece of property you cant lose your profit to wildlife. So something had to give and looks like this time the elk lost the battle. You guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened also. The DWR and sportmen/hunters needed to take action before the bullets flew neither did.

dickdog wrote:And as a investment piece of property you cant lose your profit to wildlife. So something had to give and looks like this time the elk lost the battle. You guys act like this is the first time this has ever happened also. The DWR and sportmen/hunters needed to take action before the bullets flew neither did.

DWR has been dealing with this long before anything sprouted this year. I'm not justifying his losses, I'm saying he should count them while he's ahead because the local community has had it and so has his neighbors and frankly the sportsmen and even his farming and ranching community is up in arms.

First cut, I'm told by someone I know and trust, is actually good but this ranchers says he highly doubts it was even a sprig during this and even if it was coming up the elk and deer weren't going to do enough damage in that area to justify depredation payment. This came from a guy who owns tens of thousands of farmland in Utah, Nevada, and Wyoming. The same person who made phone calls on behalf of myself and sportsmen when the shit hit the fan with Gary. This same gentleman has had to take wildlife off his property but only after helicopters and donkeys and dogs and shooting them with bird-shot wouldn't work. Gary just shot them and called Vance.

It would appear that right now, all is calm in Piute county and that there are things in the works to finally correct this including the possibility of a land swap or sale, some fence work, some hunts, or even something Gary would find even more uncomfortable but I'll leave that for the big people to talk about.

I don't know about the agg world. I won't pretend to but I do know people who do. Important people and they are sportsmen too. I would give it a few months and as the GRAMA requests start to pour out and people start reading the truth, some will eat crow (possibly even me) and others will have to resolve themselves to admitting they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. I guess we'll just have to see. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone, including the elk got some kind of fair resolution?

Sooooo...... you made an argument on first crop being shit, and based your whole argument around the damage these elk caused around it, but know nothing about farming and ranching, livestock ect....?. Have you ever walked into a muddy irrigated field after elk and deer have tromped through it? Have you ever noticed what a handful of elk do to a water hole? The alfalfa is several inches high right now, that's a whole crop lost for the season! Do you know what it cost to plant per acre? You talked to people? Who is this big landowner? If I listened to "professional people on cnn, I would think obama is doing a great job. You are talking to the wrong people. I actually know many people in Kingston and piute and they are not ranting about this, no more than they rant about the dwr and wildlife board.

You should go work on a farm this summer and get an idea of what it really takes and understand first crop is just as important as third, more even. This crop starts paying the bank back.

fatty wrote:Sooooo...... you made an argument on first crop being shit, and based your whole argument around the damage these elk caused around it, but know nothing about farming and ranching, livestock ect....?. Have you ever walked into a muddy irrigated field after elk and deer have tromped through it? Have you ever noticed what a handful of elk do to a water hole? The alfalfa is several inches high right now, that's a whole crop lost for the season! Do you know what it cost to plant per acre? You talked to people? Who is this big landowner? If I listened to "professional people on cnn, I would think obama is doing a great job. You are talking to the wrong people. I actually know many people in Kingston and piute and they are not ranting about this, no more than they rant about the dwr and wildlife board.

You should go work on a farm this summer and get an idea of what it really takes and understand first crop is just as important as third, more even. This crop starts paying the bank back.

Again, I'll wait for the GRAMA to come back that includes the photos and documentation of what "damage" was done. This big landowner isn't the wrong one to talk to, he has some great ideas because he's delt with this very thing and worked with officials in the states he owns land in including Utah. He said the same thing you did, that elk can and do make huge messes but only if landowners or the ones they hire to manage their land are lazy and don't do what they are supposed to do to prevent the damage on their end. If you let water get out, then its on you. If you don't mind your fences and don't spend time punching elk and deer in the butt with bird shot and haze them while waiting for fish and game, then its on you. But he did say that landowners should exhaust themselves before they kill any animal. And the main reason they of all people should understand that is their cattle. Cattle are no different than an elk or a deer. He read this thread second ago and said you're a fucking retard he'd no soon have on any of his ranches than he would have a wart or tick on his asshole! hahahahaha....... so, since he's going to come and look at the property himself and since I know first hand what the division, blm, and forest service are doing on thier end and I have seven (7) GRAMA requests out there waiting to be filled, I'm not going to come back here until I have been out to that property myself, have gotten all the facts of this myself, and have information in my own hands. Wart or tick on his asshole.........that's rich! hahahahahaha

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^USER WAS BANNED FOR BEING A FUCKIN WART OR TICK ON A DOGS DICK. You my friend are a complete fuckin idiot.

You and I believe imaginary friend are fucking idiots! You did not know first crop and oat hay was a valued, preferred crop to many. You don't understand, you need to water to grow it, this is also what causes major damage, them walking around, how does your big rich landowning buddy not get this? I think either he is made up, or a idiot, or you have no idea and a comprehension issue. Tell him to come on here and we can chat. A four foot fence will not hold back deer or elk, even if I put it up today! Fresh new and tight, things you would not know about. Go chase a herd of deer, then come back and tell us all how long before they were out there eating again, an hour, two?// you are a fucking moron and so is your buddy, you and him don't know shit from shineola and shooting them with birdshot only causes sores, gain green, blindness. Only affects the one animal you hit, not the other fifty coming to visit, god you are stupid!!